Thursday, September 8, 2011

END OF THE BLOG

This will be the last post. I want to thank all of you for the time that you have contributed and hope that in some part this blog helped you to get through a treacherous time in your lives. You were like family and I truly will miss all of you but times will become increasingly difficult and my family and work demands my time. gl to all of you...

132 comments:

  1. I also want to thank all the viewers and posters, my best wishes to all you. Always make your own decisions especially when it comes to finances if you are the bread provider to your family ( I have always been traditional and conservative when it comes to that which is MAN brings bread home and WOMAN does other duties and does not get involved in finance decisions of her husband) and as I said many times in the past ALWAYS do what you have agreed to do, it's never good and right to use any one else as an excuse for not paying your debt, that's a flaw in character and one will lose advice of a good friend which is hard to find these days anyway. As far as stock market, the safest approach for most of you is to stay away from this market. Good luck to all of you.

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  2. Kli, I wish you and your family well. Thanks for all the good info and conviction in your message..

    Joe, thanks for your market insight and real life answers..Best wishes to all the posters and families...

    Get busy living or get busy dying...

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  3. I'd like to express my thanks and gratitude to Kli, Joe, Red and everyone else on this blog. I wish everyone and their families the best going forward.

    This blog has been my #1 destination pretty much on a daily basis, and now I'm not sure where I'll go to get my daily dose of market analysis and other pricesless information. I almost feel like a lost child in some sense, despite all that I've learned here over the years. I wish there was some way to keep in touch with some of you folks.

    Good luck and God bless you all.

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  4. Kli,
    This was the last thing I though I'd be reading this morning, you could knock me over with a feather right now!! Wow!!!! I often wondered how you kept up with this blog being in the profession your in and with a family but I guess even you have limits. I wish you and your family well and all the blessings you deserve. I can't quite put into words what your work here has done for me as a person and as a trader. I will sorely miss the daily conversation and the people on this blog.

    Budfox has summed up my feelings well "I almost feel like a lost child in some sense" You never really know what you have until you don't.

    Joe, I want to thank you for challanging my though process, calling me on my BS and sharing your wisdom. You have opend my eyes and put me on a different path, I will continue to seek the knowledge that's right in front of me, btw 1/3 of the way into the book you suggested to Morola. Very interesting to say the least, If you have any other suggestions I guess this is my last chance to ask. Again Thank You for all you have done for me as well.

    Shit, I will miss all of you and it is my hope that at sometime in the future we can all get together again.

    God Speed

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  5. Kli,
    I truly enjoyed your blog and enjoyed participating. Your blog was the only blog I ever participated in and I will miss it.
    But you must to what's best for you & your family. There comes a time we all must move on.

    Thanks for all your insight.

    Perhaps there will come a time that we can all get together. You have a friend here in Western New York.

    Take care!

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  6. Kli,

    Wow, I wasnt expecting this. Best of luck in the future. I really appreciated your blog. Family first is always the right answer. take care.

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  7. Thanks Kli. This is always my first stop when I get on the Internet, I will sorely miss it. So much clear succinct information in a few paragraphs, everyday nonetheless, has really opened up this sheep's eyes. And thanks for bringing along such a great group of posters. Good luck to you and your family.

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  8. I'm just going to pretend I didn't see it this morning...will post when I gather my thoughts.

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  9. Kli, I will miss reading your outstanding blog with all of your insightful rhetoric. It has been a daily read for me every morning, along with another free newsletter I subscribe to twice a week. The website is investyourself.com. Like you, the guy writing it says it like it is and provides valuable information about the macro picture and this totally manipulated market. You should check it out.

    Take care.

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  10. Thanks for all you have done Guy. The ending of this blog seems like running off the cliff we have been anticipating for the last year. It has been our daily dose of reality. I last wish was that you didn't need to close it cold turkey. A two line missive every few days would be pleasant... but I understand time goes on and sometimes we must move on. Best of luck to you. I would like to see some of you on the other side of this mess should we get there.

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  11. Kli, I am sorry to see you end this blog however I am glad that it has been around for the past couple of years. I have learned a tremendous amount of information that I will use in the future. Family is more important than any market! God Speed and Good Luck!
    Rudy

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  12. Kli and Joe--Best to you both for helping with all things financial and economic over these last 3 years! I feel that I have been kicked in the stomach this morning, but of course wish you both the best of the best. You have truly meant so much to me...Please, please let us know if you will be posting elsewhere...Love and hugs, Sista Nancy

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  13. Oh, and best to all here of course...appreciate all the support more than I can express in the comment section.

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  14. Say it ain't so! I feel nauseous at the idea that I will no longer begin my days with your insightful and inspiring rants. I cannot express how much I've learned from you guys and how grateful I am for that. As sad as we all are, we understand that other things in life are more important than maintaining this blog...but would love to see a weekly edition maybe haha!

    I wish you all the best. I owe you a few beers from advice you've given me in the past, maybe one day you can collect if you're ever in CT.

    -Sammy

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  15. Gosh, this sure came as a sudden surprise.

    Thanks for all the great blogging over years. I learned more from this blog about how the world financial system truly works than I would by taking advanced college classes or watching CNBC 24/7.

    Like many, I came here via the SKF message boards. I sensed great wisdom from your posts, not only with charting, but also with your hilarious take on government actions. This blog started slow, but eventually evolved into the macroeconomic tell all. And it wasn't just your posts, but also the great comments.

    I'll miss this place.

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  16. Kli, Thank you so much for the time and effort you put inot this blog. It did not go unnoticed that you did this not for monetary gain. You have been a good teacher and I have learned. You have changed my life and my views of the way things work Thus I have become a better trader and person for that matter.

    I will miss you.

    Love you man.

    --Sheeps--

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  17. Kli, not happy about your decision but have always been grateful for your dedication as well as insightful an witty comments. Wll miss many of the contributors here ...

    What about weely or monthly updates? C'mon :)

    Kli, joe, ... are you gonna pop in elsewhere? Where's the place to find regulars from this boards?

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  18. Kli,

    Thank you so much for all of your help and insights. I often imagined how much of your time this blogs consumes. You, along with Joe, Red and the others have taught me more than you will ever know. This newbie is sure going to miss the guidance you guys provide. I wish everyone here, especially, Kli all the best in the days and years ahead. Everyone here has truly impacted the way I think and now read between the lines.

    Thanks - Ryan

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  19. In tribute to Joe..

    Today's trade was HNSN heeeeheee

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  20. Inlet, would you post the link to your blog? Somehow I misplaced it. Many thanks..

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  21. Hey Nancy - http://swingcycles.blogspot.com/

    It's on the left and clickable as well.

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  22. Kli, thank you for this blog. You and it will sorely be missed. While I rarely, if ever, posted here, I read your comments every day and not having your words of wisdom will be a tremendous loss for me as well as so many others.

    Additionally, it was a terrific forum for other brilliant minds (Joe, I am talking about you) to share their views and really tell it like it is without pulling any punches.

    I wish you both, as well as the other blog regulars here, the best as we head into a financial maelstrom like none of us have ever experienced.

    Kli, I hope to see you on Turd's blog from time to time.

    All the best, SIK

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  23. Hi all,

    I am posting to you via cell phone & laptop. I am on top of Elk Ridge near the Blue Mountains outside Blanding Utah. a herd of deer are outside my windshield as I post this.

    I am really bummed to hear the blog is ending. I hope you will be posting elsewhere. I'm just at the start of my learning curve on investing, and the information here was invaluable.

    I hope you will be posting on another blog, so I can continue my education.

    Thanks for all the insightful information. I will miss the blog more than you know.

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  24. Hopefully everyone has utilized more of their critical thinking skills through this endeavor. Also don't get too greedy, more in life than chasing debased electronic bits. Don't let personal biases and public propaganda interfere with critical life choices.

    Closed out QID late in the day, so no loose trading ends left. Nothing wrong with taking profits before they become losses.

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  25. Thank you Kli

    found you on the Turd site and always read your words.

    First it was Trader Dan, then Yukon and now you.

    My little window on the world seems to be shutting down )-:

    be well. We will miss you

    rbl

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  26. Check out the hit counter in the upper left. This blog has had 684,041 hits since the counter was installed.

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  27. Behold the fool saith, "Put not all thine eggs in the one basket" -- which is but a manner of saying, "Scatter your money and your attention;" but the wise man saith, "Put all your eggs in the one basket and --WATCH THAT BASKET."

    Mark Twain


    This blog has been a great basket!!!!

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  28. Maybe we could keep posting without any daily commentary and kli and joe could chime in on occasion?? Anyone?

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  29. Thanks Kli.. Not sure what else to say, I'll probably be coming here for months by raw force of habit.

    Sister I was thinking that's precisely what would happen with this thread if Kli doesn't delete the place entirely.

    P.S. Kli, if you think you might ever get around to writing that book you talked about this might be a good time to drop some hints to us about how we might find it ;)

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  30. I'm all for it sister. Even if Kli and Joe chimed in a few times a month, that's better than nothing. I'm just not sure whether we can keep posting on this last post, or will the blog shut down completely? (Still in a bit of a shock at the suddenness of it all, I now realize how much this blog had become part of my daily routine and one stop shop for investment ideas)

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  31. Yes, I'm not sure about the mechanics of running a blog either...how about some of you techies? I'm hoping others will check back in...will post something on the skf board as well..I know for sure sheeps is over there.

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  32. Tom,

    Always try to be AWARE, only thru awareness you can distinguish between TRUE friend and the one you need to not have any communication or friendship with. The true test of one's character will ALWAYS comes in the form of what they DO, that means if you want to know whether some one is a friend or not use the powerful and the most seductive TOOL of all which is MONEY to find out whether the person you are dealing with is worth the true friendship or not. Try to help that person make money and then see if in return he/she want to show their appreciation by giving back small percentage of what they made thru your help to you. If the person agreed and actually gave you back small percentage as token of his appreciation, take the money person sent you and add EQUAL amount to it yourself and then go and see that person, shake his/her hand and give back the money he/she sent you + equal amount you added to that amount and ask the person to give it to the poor or the homeless and explain to the person that MONEY was not the end game or the PURPOSE, it was just a TOOL to test his /her awareness and to see whether the individual had what it takes for you to be friend with him/her. If him/her always brought excuses not to pay you then right there that person FAILED the test, stay away from that individual since his action shows his/her character. We are what we DO, not what we say and the best way to test it is thru MONEY. Do not forget, in this case money is the TOOL for the test not the end product.

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  33. Sister & others,

    My impression from Kli's last post is that it is time for him to move on.

    But, on the off chance he might be thinking otherwise, perhaps he could start each mornings post with the simple phrase "Open forum for commentary". Then, those of us that wish to comment can write something and keep a thread going for that day. I suspect though, without a good opening commentary, the blog will loose effectiveness and interest will wane in time.

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  34. Hey Nancy - I was assuming the same thing, lets test the bounds of how many posts a single blog entry can take. I would volunteer to just start another (sans the expert opening commentary) but I'm starting another job in my company and its a little outside my comfort zone so will have even less time than usual. And FWIW, the bench is not comfortable at all.

    Maybe Inlet wouldn't mind some extra traffic on his blog? He doesn't provide a daily update I believe but still an active blog and he's been a big part of this one as well.

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  35. What Silverisking said
    Kli, I hope to see you on Turd's blog from time to time.

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  36. Kli,

    Hate to see you go. Been following you since the end of 2008 when you were over at SKF. Something tells me you'll pop up from time to time as you can't help but talk a little sh*t :)

    To all of the regulars,

    Thanks for sharing your ideas here. You are truly a great bunch. Good idea, Homer, Inlet updates his blog almost daily. (hint, hint)

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  37. Kli,

    I don't know what to say. I just pulled in from a long weekend in Cape Charles, VA with my wife and in-laws and hope I am not too late to let you know how much I have enjoyed your insight and "company" over the years. Checking into your blog was second nature to me as well. Not to mention all the posts on the old SKF forum. You have taught me a tremendous amount about the world through this forum, and all of the sharp minds that have contributed and stayed active as a result of how high you set the bar. I will really miss your insights. Your hard work and plain talk was not in vain, as evidenced by all of the posts before mine on this last entry.

    Every job is a self portrait of the person who does it. With this blog as an example, you have consistently autographed your work with excellence. Thank you again my friend. I will miss you and your wit more than you know. Your family is in good hands. Live well.

    Wilks

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  38. I think we all appreciate the effort and time it must have taken for Kli to come up with original an relevant information most every day. If not, start your own blog and try it - you will see.

    The thing that puzzles me is the suddenness of this decision. To me that has a bad odor. Here is one individual (not a big power in the grand scheme) revealing what some probably would rather not have exposed. And suddenly with no hint he calls it quits. I have no doubt it has to do with his job and family and future welfare. If those things were threatened by people who had the power to follow through then I can see the suddenness of his decision.

    It seems to me a simliar thing happened to Glen Beck (not that I know that for certain - just commenting on appearances). I am not comparing Kli and Beck but they were both exposing what they felt to be wrongs within the systems, and poof they are gone..... Gotta keep the sheeple ignorant - can't have people educating them. Hmmmmm, could it be?

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  39. Inlet, you make some good points. The cabal probably doesn't like it's dirty little secrets being revealed.

    But I don't see kli caving so easily though. If he deleted all previous blog entries, I'd say there is smoke.

    Sister: I like your suggestion. Let's keep this place buzzing. And God forbid, if we do indeed have a Great Depression 2, let's trade survival tips.

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  40. I will try and visit your blog Inlet from time to Inlet, no guarantees I will have anything meaningful to add.

    As for Kli's blog, nothing so insidious, just basic human traits playing out. Any answers you seek are right in front of you in the above lines. I am going to pass on any judgements as to intentions or truths. Life is too short to be playing unnecessary games.

    "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." - 1 Timothy 6:10

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  41. All,

    Red is correct, I always liked RED's AWARENESS. Has thought ever occured to you that maybe the reason kli decided to call it quits here is the realization that eventhough he likes you guys, he realized that afterall when it's said and done it's no good to talk about system corruption while engaging in trying to make money from what's considered CORRUPT . If this was the blog for POOR and HOMELESS trying to help them put their lives together then excellent, but trying to help viewers mostly middle class and far from poverty give in to their greed and participate in what RED accurately described as root of all evil is not only helping but enabling. One can not preach about corruption and then at the same time try to make money from it . Can not preach one way and in ACTION live the opposite side. I for one will never tell any one here or anywhere else from now on to participate in the stock market any more UNLESS I am absolutely convinced that the person is doing it not for themselves or their family but to help giving the proceeds to the less fortunate of the society and by less fortunate I am refering to real poor. Kli is no threat to the powerful and the reason for his sudden departure has nothing to do with what he was posting, it's the realization that he was not practicing himself what he considered corrupt in his postings and that awareness led him to change his focus. It goes back to what Ghandi said, " fix yourself, first and foremost and only then you can focus on external and surrounding issues".

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  42. This does not mean kli won't trade the market, it's just that he realized can not preach good to others if you are not following the right path yourself, so if one wants to make money from market fine, do it on your own without getting involved in the hypocricy by preaching one thing and doing something else.

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  43. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  44. It seems to me that one plays the game that exists, yet can still point out flaws in the game and wish for something different.

    I deal with this issue doing search engine marketing all the time. I want search engines that produce accurate real "just" results. At the same time, I know that if I only operate in a purely "white hat" manner, I will rank so poorly that I might as well not try at all.

    I can only imagine the amount of work it required to make a large blog post each and every day. I would not want to do it. The subject matter of this blog would also tend to get depressing.

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  45. I am curious by the comment that trading the markets is greed. while clearly greed and fear are emotions that effect trading, is it wrong or "greedy" to try and make money in the markets? I enjoy trading. It is as much a job to me as any other job I enjoy.

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  46. Ken,

    Never ever LIE to yourself or try to justify actions to convince yourself in order to escape guilt. Stock market is driven by GREED and FEAR, it's not just and it's manipulated controlled by dirty money. Any time you participate in any action that is driven by fILTH and corruption, that makes you as guilty as the ones who have the power to move it, the only difference is that you do not have the power to control and make as much money as those who run it, that's common sense. Humans are so good at lying to themselves on order to lessen the burden of fault. Participation in the market is a CHOICE, once you decide to enter as a willing participant then figure out the answer to your question. Trading paper to make profit in the stock market has nothing to do with generating or building a product or a machine that can be used for betterment of society. There is no difference between stock market and BEGAS, they are both casinos and you already know it and you also know it's based on fear and greed, unless if you are one of those human beings who considers greed and fear of trading a GOOD thing. Humans have become so efficient in lying to themselves that they have no problem translating something bad to make look good as long as it benefits them, they start complaining when corruption does not serve them. What ever you guys do or do not do in your life, at least do not lie to yourselves. As I said, it's none of my business what you guys do or do not do, I just do not want to participate in helping or enabling to another human beings greed, that's all.

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  47. I agree with RED that the answers do in fact lie in the lines above. In some way I think the answer lies in the first few posts from Joe but its pure speculation on my part. The reasons will remain unclear until Kli decides to tell us in his own words. Until that time for me the message is "It's time to Re-Evaluate" what I'm doing with my time. I have been extremely successful trading the market this year from a profit standpoint but have become a slave to it as well. It has taken me some years to understand that this is not the “Free Market” system I was taught in school and is nothing more than a skimming operation for the wealthy and powerful. I cleared the deck last Friday and only have a position in fcel that will remain (although I do wish I’d tripled down on that when it fell under a buck). I’ll take time this week to think and possibly readjust the path I’m taking. I’ve done this a few times in my life, some were forced upon me and some of my own choosing in both cases it brought me to a simpler and better place.

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  48. Just to take another angle to the argument, corruption permeates ALL segments of our society so no matter what one does, it's a tainted endeavor...sorry to be so cynical but it's been said here b/4...education, government at every level, banking, markets, military...what's a person to do? Just trying to alleviate suffering is a fulltime job. In the grand scheme it's the "love of money" that's the root of evil...but it's hard to help without any resources. Just my 2 cents. I'm thinking about Bill Still and David Icke as well. The whole system needs rethinking, not just trading markets. Best to all, love you guys.

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  49. FYI - on sale again...
    http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11487214&cm_mmc=BCEmail_Sept2011Mailer-_-Banner-_-83-_-MarketingItemName

    And...
    http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11645398&cm_mmc=BCEmail_Sept2011Mailer-_-Banner-_-87-_-MarketingItemName

    For vegetarians...
    http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11622359&cm_mmc=BCEmail_Sept2011Mailer-_-Banner-_-88-_-MarketingItemName

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  50. ""It's time to Re-Evaluate" what I'm doing with my time. I have been extremely successful trading the market this year from a profit standpoint but have become a slave to it as welL."

    Tom,

    that was my thought exactly. i started thinking about that more and more during the last year. there comes a point in time when one has to decide whether to live life or be sucked into the abyss of the mkt day after day after day. as you would call it, being a slave to the mkt.

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  51. Palmer: I've gotta disagree with your hypothesis about KLI. If he was concerned about a clean stock market, he would have quit 30 years ago, moved to Montana and started growing potatoes.


    As to the question of greed, it's something we all have to wrestle with. Was I happy to make a killing off SKF in '08/09? Yes. Did I know that millions of 401K's were being wiped out? Yes.

    What's wrong with making money off other people at the poker table?

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  52. Jay,
    For what my two cents is worth..... Joe does not "hypothesize" I would like to expand and later I will.

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  53. Over the last 35 years I have made money and lost money in the market. I was lucky enough to have made money more often than I lost it.

    There were long periods of time when my work required my full time and a lot of my retirement funds went into fixed rate savings (fortunately because of today's rates with minimum rate guarantees). That is not money to be put at risk.

    Now that I am no longer employed I have the time to monitor the markets. But after 35 years I know the risks and trading is more about having something to do that keeps me mentally focused than making a large amount of money. Of course, I want to win at the game - otherwise I would not play it. But if I stopped trading tomorrow it would not impact my finances much one way or the other because I do not risk any "serious" money in the market. Maybe if I were "greedy" I would risk more, but I have enough to meet my future needs (if I did the math correctly) so why take the risk.

    So greed is not much of a motivator for me, but it is more about the game and playing it well.

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  54. I have a link for a chat room on my blog site if any of you want to get together and use it to exchange information. It should be open to anyone who wants to use it. You can work out times and details if you decide to use it.

    Also, feel free to exchange information as comments - I have a new post most days that you could use to anchor comments.

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  55. "but it is more about the game and playing it well. "

    Inlet,

    another great point. another reason why i liked this board. i am another person that doesnt think playing the mkt is all about "greed". i am not saying greed doesnt play into it, but its not the only factor by all means. it is like a game, and trying to beat it , is like figuring out a big puzzle. the challenge of it, is a driving force. people that follow EWT, cycles,GANN theory, TA ect,ect... are not only doing it for greed, but to possibly having the satisfaction of actually knowing how to beat the mkt. sometimes the thrill of the chase is more exciting than the catch. i dont buy the theory, that everyone that plays the mkt is strickly doing it for greed. some people play the mkt for just the rush. being on the edge possibly. that doesnt necessarily translate in it being all about greed. i do believe for some people, it is about the challenge.

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  56. I'll drop in at your site Red...

    VGZ broke out, I ment'd here a couple days ago...

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  57. Rude,

    I have played the market just to try to beat the pigmen....and also to stay kind of even thru all the market turmoil...

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  58. honest,

    i always liked your "pigmen" comment. makes me laugh everytime. the "pigmen" are tough to beat though, i continue to try. nice call call on VGZ. for the record i am not immuned to the greed factor, but its also not the only reason i trade. good luck to everyone. i will say, its sad that this blog is done. and Mr. Kli, peace brother. best of good times in the future.

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  59. Credit guy If you are confusing me with Red - don't, because we are not the same person (wouldn't want you insulting Red). Hehehehe.

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  60. My bad Inlet and Red...Red is most likely insulated from insults...

    Rude, drop by inlets cycle blog, his cycle stuff is cool and something that I could never do..Much doings in my life too, so postings will be fewer...so best to all...

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  61. Out of ABAT for now, I had plenty of good trading opportunities but intermediately the position was going nowhere. Now how about SVM today? Bought a bit at 6.53, it's hard for me not to try for a bounce when ANY stock falls 16% in one day.. No formal fraud allegations so far it still smells like manipulators to me.

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  62. I read the report on SVM. It seems pretty convincing unless it is all made up.

    Joe, not sure you are still reading this. I disagree with your reasoning on reasons to stop communicating about trading.

    Your premise is that trading is "evil" and communicating about the truth of "this evil" at the same time as sharing trade advice is hypocritical; thus you must stop sharing trading advice.
    I would suggest the solution is not to stop communicating the truth (good) or to stop sharing trading advice. The solution is to stop trading. Something you have stated you and Kli are not doing.
    Doing good and evil at the same time (hypocrisy) is not the problem. Doing evil is.

    I take Kli at his word when he says he needed to stop for family and work. Sometime stopping cold-turkey is the best way to regain perspective. I can also understand stopping your communication here if you are the one providing the valuable communication and you are receiving little in return. Just don't tell me I am lying to myself. I am not. Trading allows me to use my assets to make money in hard economic times. I have not needed to lay-off any of my employees. If I was not trading, it might be a different story.

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  63. Ken,

    I have not talkled about my reasons for trading in the past since that's my business but since you brought it up, here it is. Not a penny of my trading proceeds is used by me or any member of my family so no hypocricy there from my part. The money made from market is DIRTY money since stock market is completly manipulated, moved by powerful corrupt entities and it's gambling money and because of that I do not use even a penny of that dirt for mine or family's expenses, majority of that money which is profits from stock market goes to homeless and the rest is used for people who work for me in my main business. Trade as much as you want, that's your business . The reason I trade is to provide for others, not for myself or my family.

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  64. Tell me the truth, you can not handle the truth which is why most of the society is damned. They do not know the difference between NEED and WANT. None of you will ever be free until you have the courage and awareness to accept the TRUTH and not twist things to serve your interests.

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  65. Ken,

    By the way as far as Kli is concerned, you and others communicated in the surface with him, you do not KNOW him just like you do not know me at all , I can assure you I know kli lot more than you guys will ever get to know, his strength and his weakness in many levels which you have no idea and should not have any idea since it's not your business to know. It's not wise for one to make comments here without knowing all the facts. Stay with your tradings and as I said good luck to all of you.

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  66. So Joe, you're saying that making money isn't immoral, but spending it is? As a cheapskate myself I can probably get behind that idea. Obviously you're not above reinvesting profits or your solvency would be very short-lived.

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  67. I just want to be clear about what you're saying, you're advocating humility in consumption correct?

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  68. Morla,

    If money you make in your life is made thru hardwork and production and not exchanging and trading pure paper controlled by corrupt entities then it's yours for your expenses and family's expenses ( It's nice to share some of that with less forunate ones as well). If money is made thru gambling and casino practices, then it's not mine to keep, should be given to the less fortunate people in the society.

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  69. Morla,

    As far as consumption, I am clearly advocating humility. When you talk to people and they tell you their life style is not what it used to be, pay attention to how much of what they say they NEED is really WANT. This country has got into bad habit of living beyond their means thru BORROW and SPEND and they do not realize most of what they say need is really want. Wise person knows very well the distinction between what's really a NEED and what's WANT. The heck with any one who is facing bad times because of their WANTS or past bad financial decisions.

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  70. Not yours to "keep", but mathematically it has to be yours to "hold" or you'd be long since insolvent. I'm getting the impression you're talking about the eventual beneficiaries of stock market profit, not the profit itself.

    I'd also like to know what you count as "production"? Is it moral to make a living selling unhealthy food to unhealthy people? Selling pointless luxury items and electronic baubles? Being paid not to plant crops? If you look deeply enough most ways of "making money" in this country, and indeed the money itself, do no objective "good" for others.

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  71. Morla,

    I am talking about beneficiaries of stock market profit, the profits made by me in the stock market MORALLY is not mine to keep and therfore it goes to those that are REAL needy.

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  72. By production, I mean producing anything that truely helps the betterment of the society and it's not IMMORAL.

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  73. Personally I don't think it matters where the money comes from, the only difference is how many layers deep you'd have to look to find the evil and corruption. The casino is just thieves cheating thieves, a process of obtaining money I see as morally neutral. Where the money goes when it leaves your hand is where morality comes into play, the point where you face real material desire as opposed to the "thrill of the hunt" rudemood is talking about.

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  74. Stock market to me is neither about making a living for myself or family, material desire or the So-called thrill of the hunt.

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  75. The overwhelming tide in our society is, and has always been, flowing towards EVIL. The electronics we're using right now to debate morality may have been assembled by malnourished Indonesian children for all we know. While it can be said that a U.S. farmer growing apples and living modestly is a moral affair the money is soaked in blood and tears, the standard of living that his "modest" lifestyle is compared against is soaked in blood and tears.

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  76. I suppose my point is that we can do what we can to separate need from want, to contribute as little as possible to evil, but every aspect of commerce is tainted to some extent. Humans have never achieved a moral society, the greed of the masses always manifests as tyranny or slavery, sometimes by another name, sometimes by proxy, but the history books are very clear on this.

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  77. I'm in full agreement with you that most of us aren't good people, that in the same circumstances we'd likely make the same choices the "banksters" are making. We think we want the government to protect us from the "banksters" when really we're hoping to be protected from ourselves.

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  78. Morla,

    CHOICE means that eventhough you have no control over what the rest of society is doing or not doing, you as an individual have a CHOICE to try to live the way you believe is right regardless of what majority do or do not. Every one should do what they believe it's the right way of living. It makes no difference to me what any one else wants to do as far as stock market is concerned.

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  79. This was my last post here, as I mentioned before good luck to all of you and my best wishes!

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  80. Good luck to you as well Joe, your message might not be accepted by most, Americans least of all, but if you can influence even a single person to reduce selfish consumption that will be one of those few "good" things we humans sometimes accomplish (against the current).

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  81. The biggest thing I "earned" from trading the stock market has been the freedom / free time it generated so that I could do beneficial things with my time.

    Lifestyles? Only Wants that I strive for are free-time (but not to be a lazy bum) and a desire to not cook. (I tend to eat out a lot).
    I am very aware of my wants, needs, and the difference.

    How one spends money is more important than how it is earned (so long as you are not doing harm to others in earning it). In my free time, I often work for others for free.

    I did not mean to offend in suggesting possible motives of others actions.

    So I ask this question Joe: What do you think is a legitimate way to make money with money? Anyone who owns a business is attempting to make money both with their own work and with money. I buy product with money and try to sell it for a greater amount for a profit. I invest money in employees so that they gain skills or develop products that will generate profits. I also buy stocks because I think they are undervalued and I can sell them for more later. In all parts of doing business, I need to be aware of the crooks that try to remove money. In business and the markets, fraud and corruption are all around us.

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  82. i see Joe has made his last post. I wish you well Joe. The conversations have been thought provoking and interesting.

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  83. Ken, the only contention I have with your post is that when most of us learn about the crooks we only use that knowledge to personally avoid or hedge against them. This is the path of least resistance and it projects from the individual level all the way up, like a giant mirror of ourselves. Surrounded by corruption in all directions as long as we've "got ours" and at least the guy we voted for wasn't that other guy the public holds elected leadership to almost no standard whatsoever.

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  84. Morla, I am not sure what else to do with the knowledge of crooks. I protect myself and hedge against them. I try to treat others in just ways. Many have posted that if "we" had the money and power, we would be the same as the bankers; doing as they do now. I don't want to foolishly and simply state that i would not do the same, however... I can state that I hope I would not, and in my life now, I think I do the right and just things. When I have had positions of power, I have not acted corruptly.

    Some here have pointed out that they do not vote. (implied that both sides are corrupt and controlled by the same powers). I do vote. Sometimes it is for the one that I think will do least harm.

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  85. The reason that convoluted conspiracy theory tends to be wrong is that successful scams tend to be extremely simple. The game being played against us in our political system has only one component, it's called "false dichotomy". Our hopes and fears are repeatedly hoodwinked into believing that the only option when presented with a bunch of scary charlatans is to put a bunch of less scary charlatans in power.

    Until we at least take the first tiny step of "stop voting for the lesser of two evils" we're all hypocrites for even being angry about crime and corruption. A large number of people vote, and this is what they're voting for. Just don't be that other guy, otherwise do what thou wilt.

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  86. Understand I'm not nor have I ever been judging anyone here, this is just the human race when you put a large enough group of us together. Not the first governmental "dark age" we've sent ourselves into and it won't be the last. All we can hope for is a few islands of good in an unending tide of injustice.

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  87. "We" as individuals wouldn't HAVE to personally wrong anyone to be the same as 95% of the bankers, just look the other way. Our entire civilization is doing it as we speak, it's extremely easy.

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  88. How does not voting help to make anything better? the fewer people that vote, the scarier the charlatans will be that get elected.

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  89. I'm typing on a keyboard right now. If I focus my mind on the keyboard in front of me it seems obvious that a significant portion of it was crafted by Asian children who are barely getting by, if they're getting by. My act of typing right now is fairly clear evidence that I'm capable of turning a blind eye to evil.

    From that point on we're just haggling over the price of our souls. Until and unless we really try to do something about the effect our political apathy and living standards have on the most downtrodden and exploited participants in our very global economy.

    Joe says he's making that effort and I have no motive for doubting him.. But the number of citizens of wealthy nations who can be said to be doing "good" in the world is likely very, very small when their lives are really broken down to numbers taking all the world's people into account.

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  90. I'll tell you how it makes anything better, and it's economics 101. Economies of scale. Barriers of entry. Think about these economic concepts and consider what the effect of two-party dominated voter turnout is going to be on any form of leadership outside the two-party monopoly.

    It's best to vote for someone you really believe in, but if there's no such candidate not voting at all is VASTLY preferable to voting for a bad reason (like fear).

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  91. "It's our civic duty to vote" is a BS notion, our real civic duty isn't to simply vote no matter what, our real civic duty is to be AWARE of what leaders are doing, AWARE of their record and credibility, and not settle for terrible/corrupt leadership even from a party we find less distasteful than the false dichotomy of the "other guy".

    Our democratic leaders are a direct representation of our standards in leadership, and our votes are the way in which we regularly re-affirm those standards.

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  92. I am a simple person - to me charity begins at home with family. I see so many people who are not doing well finacially (and the fault is their own). That computer, printer, TV, appliances, furniture are rented from RAC or Aaron's. Sure if they keep it long enought they may own it, but at what price? So they are paying something like 3X the market price because they "want it now" instead of saving to get it later. I feel no desire to help such people and support and encourage such behavior.

    Maybe ignorance can be fixed, but when people have wants (and feel entitled) to more than they can afford I doubt it will. Then there is out and out stupidity - there is no cure.

    I have a situation in my life (a disabled child who will never be able to support themself) that I may never address sufficiently - and that is where charity begins and ends for me. If that is wrong/evil so be it, but I will do the best I can to care for my own.

    To assume motives without knowing a person's situation is asinine. So to each of you here - I do not know your situation or reason to pursue this thing called the "Stock Market" and assume no mal intent by any of you. If you make a few dollars I say use it to good cause whether it is to make your life better or to assist those less fortunate.

    I do understand the difference between need and wants. I have few wants that cost money. My needs are amply covered. If I make some money at this endeavor then it goes toward a good cause (my child's welfare).

    Good luck to all of you.

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  93. Thanks Inlet,
    I know in my heart what I really need money for and it is family. Not to enrich them, but so they can retire. I have family that is 75 year on and not retired. Not because they borrowed or overspent on themselves. They are unable to retire. Anything I can do to help them, I do and will. They have given of themselves for others their entire life. I will not apologize for seeking ways to help them, or gain the free time to spend with them. Yes, there are people in the world worse off, but there are always people worse off. Family comes first. Taking care their NEEDS comes first

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  94. Hey Inlet - if I read everything correctly, you said we are welcome in both a chat and the comments area of your blog? Thanx so much, I hope many will take you up on it and not be unwelcome visitors. I would hate to think of going back to SKF.

    Agree with family part, my older brother's house is basically gone with the floods. He and his family is at my house now. Very sad, we're doing the best we can.

    Joe - I know you said your last post so I won't ask questions to "lure" you back. You are correct, no one really knows anyone here or their intentions. Also, those are very powerful comments in regards to wants vs needs. I see it all the time, my wife and I work very hard so we can get things we need and things we want for us and our children. I would like to think we understand the difference.

    As a final point, I'd like to argue there was a point in time the market because a casino and not all money collected from it is evil. I'd hate to think the little old lady with IBM stock from the 60s through the 80s was leeching and evil? lol. We certainly never were active enough to make something of it, at least my wife went 30% cash in her retirement funds which I believe was a good thing and I'm looking for her to get more into cash. Her money and I know you're old school but I think she's coming around. My 401K has always been mostly cash darting in and out of the markets. I am also convincing her to run with RWM a little more, and if that's feeding off evil or being evil, I'm okay with that.

    Sorry I was late to the blog for the goodbyes, but lets get something going on Inlet's if he's willing.

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  95. The market is a casino and most people here know that. Heck, I remember in the 80's my dad bought a gambling book and they had an entire chapter dedicated to the stock market.

    We aren't the dealers... We are the players. The boys at Goldman, Bilderberg, NWO types far off the radar are in charge. But I still play the game, KLI still plays the game, we all do. It's fun.

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  96. Homer, you understood correctly - people are welcome to continue communicating on my blog if they desire and/or use the chat. If anyone tries to turn it into SKF I will censor and/or block. Unlike on the SKF board I do have that authority. Hehehehe

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  97. It is fun :P Sorry to get all profound up there. Hell, I'm not even particularly good at this and I enjoy my participation in the market. Good at not losing money, terrible at making it.

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  98. Well, we just can't end with 99 comments, so here is #100.

    Throughout Kli's blog, there have been discussions of Good & Evil. Joe powerfully believes that Evil must be recognized (awareness), fought & eliminated where ever possible. It was my position that Good & Evil are linked, and elimination is impossible. Still, we need to be aware of it and choose not to take that path. In the book of Genesis, Evil was present within Paradise. Now why would God do such a thing??--Evil needed to be there.

    There is Evil in the stock market, yet there is good too. It may be difficult to see these days, but it is there.

    I believe Kli has always posted honestly, so I have no reason to doubt his final post. He did a great job. Perhaps some day he will return.

    Inlet, I would be happy to be a part of your blog. But, the prediction I made on your blog prior to the Labor Day Holiday,...well...that wasn't so good. I have never done an on-line chat. Maybe it is time.

    In December/2010, I wrote that I would be an active part of Kli's blog. Since the blog is over, this will be my last post here.

    Best to all!

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  99. Why end at 100 ... I can see joe having fun with SVM. I reduced my position a bit late aroun 7.50, but at least bought back at 6.10 this morning ... what a ride. Are they for real or not? With all the lying and counter-lying in the world of finance, it's getting harder to discern anything remotely truthful anymore ...

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  100. Which ends up defaulting into the "when in doubt, get out". I am a bit concerned. I have read all the negative reports and all the positive company replies. Something doesn't add up. I realize that it can take time for the company to fully comply facts and reply. The just stated that they would not be replying any more except through independent reviewers. That basically means that they will not have any more responses for a while. They have not answered some of the troubling questions.
    I just don't know. Both sides are doubling down.

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  101. Assume y'all have seen this Jim Cramer video on the market manipulation, but it bears repeating, it's a wonder anyone can make any fiat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOS8QgAQO-k

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  102. Ken, regarding SVM, I'm with you. "When in doubt, get out", "where there's smoke, there's fire", etc, etc. It's really not worth it to fool around with that scam. I got in around $8.10, and got out around 6.80, losing a small chunk in the process. The shorts took over right before the close and took it down.

    It's cool though, Kli and Joe have earned the right to offer up an occasional dog like HNR, DCTH, or SVM. The number of good picks and the profits I've made purely based on their recommendations are many times over the few bad ones.

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  103. I'm going to keep posting here even though KLI is getting back to the gig called real life.

    I want to ask a question to everyone here. Are we really going to have a second Great Depression? So far, the puppets in charge have done a fine job of kicking the can down the road.

    I haven't stocked up on seeds, I haven't bought physical gold, I haven't purchased any firearms, I don't have money stuffed in my mattress. I have a solid middle class job in a Seattle suburb.
    Am I being naive?

    Jay

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  104. Jay, I'm of the "prep for the worst, hope for the best" mentality. I feel that I have prepared sufficiently enough, that should the SHTF, I will be ready for it, as best as I can. I hope I never need any of those preps. Maybe we'll never get that depression, and just chug along in a stagflationary environment, with little wage growth, a range-bound stock market, and persistently high unemployment, among others, for the next decade.

    But if things do get bad, I believe your level of preperation will determine whether you have a recession, while everyone around you has a depression. So, if you haven't done any of the things you mentioned, it surely wouldn't hurt to perhaps acquire some of those things, just in case.

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  105. Kli,

    I checked in almost every morning to read your blog but rarely posted, I'm sure there are many many more just like me. I've really enjoyed this, thank you for allowing me to share in it. I hope you will be back one day if time permits.

    Joe, THANK YOU! if you will be posting anywhere else please let me know as long as you are trading I would love hear your thoughts.

    all the best,

    -v

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  106. Out of SVM at around 7.07, look at me profit taking Joe would approve :)

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  107. Hey, I was messing with euro and ichi clouds...might have a clue on which way to go..

    [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/9lbddc.jpg[/IMG]

    who knows though...weekly looks worse...

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  108. Nice chart honest I'll keep that on my radar.

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  109. Morla, the chart played out perfect...more down coming..

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  110. I see that the market is reacting positively to Obama's 1.5 trillion dollar tax increase proposal.

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  111. "Is Gold Cheap? Who Knows? But Gold-Mining Stocks Are"

    http://tinyurl.com/69bhfan

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  112. The market is crashing!!!!

    Man, I wish KLI was still doing this. Right now he'd be saying "whatta game" or "this is all planned"

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  113. Yes, and our beloved :) PMs getting royally creamed. Maybe 1490 or so on the radar.

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  114. Gold and Silver getting absolutely mauled again.

    Could it be that Helicopter Ben is finally going to try something called free market capitalism?

    No more kicking the can down the road?

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  115. I know a lot of people here were invested heavily into gold and silver.

    I hope they were small positions.

    "Silver drops 18%, worst in decades;"

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/silver-drops-18-worst-in-decades-platinum-sinks-2011-09-23?dist=countdown

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  116. Well if it's "the big one" miners won't be fun in the short term. Maund is saying this isn't over and he did uncannily call the recent big decline. I may decide to minimze my core even if we do seem to be bouncing Monday.

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  117. and maybe a good time to shift the remaining core all the way towards gold too.

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  118. We need to Hit Iran
    Submitted by kliguy38 on October 5, 2011 - 11:54am.
    Hat Tip!11After all we hit Iraq and Afghanistan for their oil and mountains of minerals. I'm sure Iran has something too. Admittedly there are 70 million people in Iran but what the heck....we've already got 800 military bases in 125 countries and wave the flag everytime we need to put some money into the coffers of the defense industry and boy o boy do we need some manufacturing AND employment right now. Hey... if it gets bad enough we can just nuke all of em. I know we've got enough folks scared right now from all of these terrorists out there so support should be very strong. Sure.....we're a little stretched financially but our masters know this rubber band can be stretched a lot further before it snaps. After all when those mushroom clouds start rolling over Iran the prevailing winds don't blow that radiation towards their homes in the northern Mediterranean. I know one thing....just like my stalwart super patriots like CPN.... I'm gonna wave that flag to defend my masters even if I have to spill every last drop of my treasury and my kid's blood to do it. I love my masters.

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  119. CPN ....
    Submitted by kliguy38 on October 5, 2011 - 2:29pm.
    Hat Tip!2saw your reply......BTW I have some experience in that region and the chances of us hitting them is very low....this is more saber rattling for the global strategic game of dominance. IF and this is a big IF....if we ever did hit them then I predict all hell will break loose in that region and it will quickly spread global. We know this but there is always the off chance they need a distraction and implementation of reducing global population. The profit to the military industrial complex would be extraordinary and our fascist transition complete. gl

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  120. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  121. WHAT?! i thought u were going to post my pics from the occupation! that's why i sent so many, pops!

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  122. Heard Paul Craig Roberts (former asst. treasury secty) on radio today discussing why there is no terrorism threat, it's all manufactured for the mic. But we already knew this.

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  123. Inlet: Where is KLI posting these days?

    Did he go back to the SKF boards?

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  124. There are some real terrorists but mostly the rest of the world would be content if we (including our corporations) would just leave them alone. Ron Paul 2012 I suppose :-\

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  125. Again great point about those ichi clouds honest, this is looking good.

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  126. I'm an agnostic myself, but I've come to consider that perhaps the religious are more philosophically and intellectually agile than the average "skeptic". I say this because the confirmation bias of, for instance a christian, is third person. The presumption of the christian is that God cannot be wrong.. Leaving scripture open to a variety of interpretations which could allow quite an array of philosophical positions.

    The confirmation bias of an atheist though is a predisposition toward his own intellect.. To admit that one is WRONG is a much greater task than to admit simple misinterpretation. If an atheist is wrong about something in the first place it could be much more difficult for him to recognize that and change his mind. Take two people of equal intelligence, one of whom is humble and the other confident of his intelligence..

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  127. I was just wondering what the old gang here has been up to?

    Is anyone still long on gold/silver miners? Anyone making day trades?

    I've been staying all cash. Sometimes it's just more fun to watch the casino from the sideline.

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  128. Oh, you know, ranting, making money then losing it, that sort of thing.

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  129. You follow Karl Denninger at all? I may be of little use financially but philosophically I know a few things.

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  130. For instance I just found this:

    http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/ForeignAffairs.pdf

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